48 Responses

  1. Steven Sullivan
    Steven Sullivan at |

    Call me a jaded Gen-Xer, but what the hell? It’s not like 20 years ago there were airlines and hotels creating new brands to cater to our business. When we traveled, we flew the same airlines and stayed in the same hotels everyone else did – and we liked it. 🙂

    1. Seth Miller
      Seth Miller at |

      I do believe that there are ways brands can appeal to different types of travelers (or consumers in any other industry). And that can be useful. But running an airline within an airline has historically proven a spectacular way to burn cash and I see no reason this will be any different.

      Also, get off my lawn.

    2. Steven Sullivan
      Steven Sullivan at |

      It really is comical how many times the airline within an airline gets attempted. It’s going to be different this time because?

    3. Michael Trenteseau
      Michael Trenteseau at |

      If these distinctive features are so great, why not put them in the main airline? As another cynical Xer I have to wonder if you’re having to choose between different kinds of embarrassing cheapness to get the additional stuff you want.

    4. Kerwin McKenzie
      Kerwin McKenzie at |

      They also own HOP! right?

    5. Seth Miller
      Seth Miller at |

      Yes, Kerwin, the Hop! brand is also part of the family. Hop! is a regional carrier branding also not flying at CDG.

  2. David Studden
    David Studden at |

    No idea! I don’t think they have either 🙁

  3. John the Wanderer
    John the Wanderer at |

    Will they be making this all economy? Or will there be premium options also? Will they be a part of SkyTeam?

  4. Christian
    Christian at |

    Looks like they hired one of those millennials they are targeting to do that crappy video! So how will this be an airline targeted at millennials? Offer cheaper or free wi-fi and call it a day while offering the same service and charging the same price?

  5. Kerwin McKenzie
    Kerwin McKenzie at |

    I don’t get it either. It makes zero sense to me.

    1. Lake Phalgoo
      Lake Phalgoo at |

      I thought that when large airlines do this to go after LCCs, the “new company” is not subject to the same union agreements as the mother airline, so they can use less-senior pilots/crew and pay them lower wages and hence do a better job matching the LCC fares … no?

    2. Seth Miller
      Seth Miller at |

      Yes, the union rules matter. In this case though, it is the same unions with approval to work under different rules. Approval from the pilots’ union came this week. FAs approved it last week IIRC.

      And running two-tier contracts have a habit of pissing off employees. Just look at BA’s current streak of strike experiences with the “mixed fleet” crews that work under different contracts than the original BA union crews.

  6. Michael J. Graven
    Michael J. Graven at |


    1. Steven Sullivan
      Steven Sullivan at |

      Maybe UA can try it again and this time call it “Uni”?

    2. Michael J. Graven
      Michael J. Graven at |

      If DL did it, it’d be “Ta” (as in the Aussie sense, thanks for the money)

      If AA did it, it’d be “can” of soda.

      If NK did it, it’d be Cousin It.

    3. Steven Sullivan
      Steven Sullivan at |

      NK isn’t Cousin It already?

    4. Michael J. Graven
      Michael J. Graven at |

      Steven Sullivan instantrimshot.com

    5. Steven Sullivan
      Steven Sullivan at |

      Michael, too bad AF missed the opportunity here to call their new airline within an airline “Ance — A Part of Air France.”

    6. Joel Anderson
      Joel Anderson at |

      I think there was an onion article right around the start of Ted, where Del (Delta), Ric (American), and Al (Continental) were being introduced as playmates to Ted.

  7. David Conklin
    David Conklin at |

    Does it have gate to gate wifi? That’s an important element if they are really after this so called segment

    1. Seth Miller
      Seth Miller at |

      None of the planes in the Air France fleet have wifi today. The long-haul fleet is committed to Gogo’s 2Ku service so that can work gate-to-gate, assuming regulatory approval. Of course, I have no idea if they’ll install it on the A340s planned to be retired in just a couple years; that’s an expensive proposition.

      On short-haul AF/KLM is not yet committed to a wifi provider. Some of the options would support G2G and some would not.

      1. William Y.
        William Y. at |

        Yeah, throwing an antenna on a flight is super expensive.

  8. Scott Laird
    Scott Laird at |

    They’ve picked out a name and a color. Good reason for a press release.

    1. Seth Miller
      Seth Miller at |

      Also to non-announce that they’re going after the LCC and ME3 carriers with a new offering that only saves a portion of the costs they really need to trim.

    2. Michael Trager
      Michael Trager at |

      Seth, but they have flight attendant uniforms. So, it’s all good.

    3. Seth Miller
      Seth Miller at |

      Mix-and-match, no less. With a swanky sneakers option, maybe.

    4. Michael Trager
      Michael Trager at |

      Seth, yeah, I mean it’s hip-french-trainer look. Really was so odd, maybe I’m just getting old.

  9. Michael
    Michael at |

    It’s a union thing right?

    The pilots have “work conditions adapted to its competitive positioning” and for the flight attendants “an independent career path will be created to enable this new company to be operated at the level of market costs”. That’s what the Nov 2016 press release said ( http://www.airfranceklm.com/sites/default/files/communiques/trust_together_en.pdf ).

    I bet those pilots and FAs end up being less expensive and having lower labor obligations on a per-passenger-seat-mile basis.

    To the extent that it’s a labor thing:
    * Kind of reminds me how Lufthansa has some longhaul transatlantic flights operated by people following CityLine work rules (“Jump” flights e.g. https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/33686-cityline-pilots-to-operate-lufthansas-a340-jump-fleet ). I think those aircraft have a discernibly leisure configuration but still feel like LH despite being operated by CL.

    * Or reminds me of how Swiss operates its 77W fleet with the Swiss Global Air Lines subsidiary ( formerly Swiss European Air Lines, https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/swiss-clashes-with-pilot-union-over-cost-cuts-398259/ ) to cut labor costs. I think those aircraft (e.g. ZRH-SFO) feel a lot like LX and are not obviously LZ.

  10. John Dekker
    John Dekker at |


  11. Tootsie Roll
    Tootsie Roll at |

    Is Air France having a stroke?

  12. Kimmo Lahtinen
    Kimmo Lahtinen at |

    I wonder if it something similar to Moxy by Marriott, it is targeted to 20-30. We enjoyed it though we felt quite old there, we were not the target group. Doing similar with airline might be difficult and I am not sure how well I would fit in or would there be enough customers in their target group.

    1. Christian
      Christian at |

      @ Kimmo….Moxy makes sense to some extend because that demographic might want to sit in the nice common areas and play on their devices. They don’t seem to want to spend much time in their rooms since the rooms are the size of a box. Aloft by Starwood and other independent hotel chains did this first and Marriott copied it to try and be corporate cool. IMHO it works for hotels but it just can’t be translated to a plane. Basically you are stuck in a seat for a duration of time and there’s not much they can change about that. They can’t make the seats much smaller and offer a common area because that just doesn’t work for airlines. To me this really is a “lipstick on a pig” attempt to use marketing to TRY and make this sound new and interesting when the reality is that this will be a “butt in seat” experience just like the one Air France and other airlines currently offer.

  13. Recap: $500 GOC, Disney World Fast Pass, Joon & Hyperloop News - Doctor Of Credit

    […] Bonjour, Joon. What the heck are you doing here?? by Wandering Aramean. Ah yes the old “targeted towards millenials”. I guess this means it will have power and WiFi. […]

  14. Alastair Majury
    Alastair Majury at |

    Thanks for sharing, I hadn’t heard of Joon before now.
    Wonder if it will be more successful than BA’s “Go”?

  15. Grant
    Grant at |

    Based on initial reactions and the prior performance of meta airlines, I’m going to guess that Joon is going to be DOA. Millennials, (I suppose I’m one of them) tend to be profoundly price conscious on transportation. I don’t know what segment is being targeted here if prices won’t really be lower and services are likely to remain the same. They could put a decently sized seat in it, but no one would pay. I don’t see the business justification in this move at all.

  16. Joon is . . . Alive! - Wandering Aramean
    Joon is . . . Alive! - Wandering Aramean at |

    […] Read More: Bonjour, Joon. What the heck are you doing here?? […]